Home / Falun Gong / Words from Ex-members

Yu Changxin talks about Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong

2008-01-25 Source:Kaiwind

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: Recently, newspapers and televisions reported the Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident of some "Falun Gong" obsessed members. Have you watched the reports?

Yu: I have watched all the reports.

Q: What's your feeling after watching these reports?

Yu: I feel these people were very miserable and the scene was tragic. I am so sinful when witnessing they stepped into the path without end and I feel sorry to the casualties and their family members.

I was a backbone member of "Falun Dafa Research Association". I had compiled 16 books such as "Zhuan Falun" and so on; two practicing stories and some materials of "Falun Gong" instigated and ordered by Li Hongzhi since October 1992. Moreover, I had attended the production of four audio and video materials. All of these things were to apotheosize Li Hongzhi and the heretical ideas of "Falun Gong". Actually Li Hongzhi held 13 classes in Beijing and 9 classes in Changchun, which were the majority of the 53 classes held in the whole country and there were few classes in other areas. If the average number of the participants of each class was two to three thousand, then there were 200 thousand in the whole country. However, the number of "Falun Gong" practitioners was several million in the whole country. Li Hongzhi traveled to 15 to 16 provinces, but there were "Falun Gong" organizations almost in every province. Therefore, "Falun Gong" practitioners in other provinces practiced "Falun Gong" through reading the books of Li Hongzhi and two stories and materials compiled by me, or through audio and video materials. Even some of the practitioners who attended Tian'anmen Square self-immolation incident practiced "Falun Gong" through reading books and watching videotapes. Therefore, I played a very bad role in the spreading of "Falun Gong" books and I played a role that Li Hongzhi cannot play. I feel very sinful. And I was upset when they charged Li Hongzhi and I was full of regret!

Before practicing this Gong, the life of my wife and me was not bad. Although we got illness, our life was happy and the government usually helped us. However, I ended up in prison from a man with happy life after 4.25. I will not forget this in my whole life, although there was no use to regret and there was no way to make up. The loss caused to our Party and county, and to the lives and properties of people was too great to be remedied. The dead people were miserable and I believed some of them didn't attend the classes, so it was due to my sins. The government and the court sentenced me an imprisonment of 15 years (oral error, actually it's 17 years), actually it will be 21 years, 17 years of imprison and 5 years of depriving political rights. As to the sentence, I said that I had realized my sins and I accepted any kind of sentences. I will not appeal and I will recast myself carefully and try to make up my sins in my rest life.

After more than a year's reeducation, I had completely realized the real appearance of Li Hongzhi and the reactive essence of "Falun Gong". Therefore I decided to make a thorough break with Li Hongzhi, the political swindler and break from "Falun Gong", which brought disasters to our country and people. I would like to stand out bravely and disclose the real appearance and reactive essence of Li Hongzhi and "Falun Gong" with my personal experiences so as to allow people to realize the reactive essence of "Falun Gong" and Li Hongzhi.

Q: As a backbone member of "Falun Dafa Studying Association", you had contacted with Li Hongzhi for many times and understood him better, what kind of person Li Hongzhi is in your opinion?

Yu: I had contacted with him by myself more than 20 times and we talked with each other. In my opinion, he is a hypocrite, a political swindler and a man with political ambitions.

Q: You said Li Hongzhi was a hypocrite; can you describe it in detail?

Yu: I feel Li Hongzhi was a very disingenuous person. Apparently he seemed like a gentleman when you got to know him. But he will become another person with further understanding. According to the saying of my hometown, he was "a man with two faces". That is to say, he was a man in front of others and a devil in the back. Actually he never fulfilled his words. This characteristic was particularly apparent in the way he earned money. In his words and in the "Regulations for Tutorship Station", he said clearly that practitioners should not get involved with money and property. But he himself earns money as much as possible. What impressed me directly was the issue of publishing books. The original price of "Lections in America", the book published in Guangzhou was 5 yuan. After Li Hongzhi knew it, he said the price was too low and the prices for books published in the future should be higher. He said that publishing companies can earn money and he can earn a lot of money too. Therefore, when "Lections in America" was published the second time, he requested his follower, and asked the publishing company to set the price as 8 yuan. He also assumed the position of juridical deputy of "Hong Kong Falun Buddha Publishing Company". When he set up such a publishing company, it was difficult to publish some of his books in Mainland since some publishing companies won't publish books with blind faiths. Then he registered such a publishing company there and he assumed the juridical deputy. Later I raised my suggestion in front of some followers. I said the master should not assume the juridical deputy because the juridical deputy is the boss. And Ji Liewu can assume the position. Others didn't say anything because they had heard my suggestion for several times. However, Li Hongzhi did not utter a word, and no one said it again. Now when I recall it, I realize that he just want to obtain the controlling power and control the money. And I should buy my own books with my money. Once I was in someone's home and Liu Guirong carried the books published in Hong Kong back. She handed over three books to me. I found the books were well printed and kept them, and I did not read them. After a while Liu Guirong came back and she said, Mr. Yu, the price of your books is 51 yuan and you can give me 50. I was a little surprised, but I still gave her 50 yuan. The reason why I was a little surprised was that I thought the books were presented to me, because Ji Liewu took the draft from me before the books were published. My feeling was that, as to earning money, Li Hongzhi refused to have anything to do with friends. The characteristic of hypocrite of Li Hongzhi was obviously incarnated in the issue of earning money.

Q: You said Li Hongzhi is a swindler, could you give some examples?

Yu: I feel that Li Hongzhi is an absolute swindler. He has a series of pleading tactics and he can make use of some altisonant reasons to justify him and cover his deceiving techniques and behaviors. He said he could plant "Falun" in people's lower abdomen, which would keep turning all day long and cure people's diseases and help them practice Gong. When someone asked him whether the "Falun" could kill the baby in the abdomen of pregnant women, Li Hongzhi answered that the "Falun" would not kill the baby. If it killed the baby, then it would snip the gut of normal people. He said the "Falun" was in your body of the other space. After he fabricated such heresy, people might believe in it since they could not see or touch the "Falun". The other example was about the power of "Falun". He also cheated people and asked them to experience it. He said he could not performance and people could only experience it. When he made the speech with Gong, he threw out a "Falun" (a hand gesture)and asked followers to experience it with their hands. I tried to receive it three times, but I didn't feel "Falun" turning in my hands. When I asked my wife, she didn't feel it turning either. When I asked acquaintances, they felt the same. Therefore, Li Hongzhi had no power as to the power of "Falun". However, he was able to fabricate a set of heretical theories and people felt no way to raise a question. I felt his deceiving technique was so excellent that it was not egregious of calling him a swindler.

At the beginning I believed in him. Later, I got a book named "Interpreting Mysteries in the World" and videotape named "The Source of Human Being", which was produced by American Academy of Sciences. Most of the pre-history culture in Li Hongzhi's speech was cribbed from them. He just took research results of others as his own. He said there was a nuclear reactor in Gabon. In 1972, Gabon sold the uranium ore to France. As to the uranium ore, there were two stories, one said the content of uranium was very low, and the other said it came from the nuclear reactor constructed 2 billion years ago and had run for 500 thousand years. When Li Hongzhi told me the story, I felt this man might have real theurgy and he might come from pre-history. According to Darwin, the present human being has lasted no more than 10 thousand years, and in China the history is called 5 thousand or 7 thousand years. How Li Hongzhi got to know the nuclear reactor constructed 2 billion years ago and had run for 500 thousand years. At that time I felt he might have such kind of theurgy. But after I read this book, I found what he talked about was nipped from the book. And the history he talked about came from the videotape. He just nipped them and boasted to be his own.

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: You said that Li Hongzhi is a man with political ambition. Please give some examples

Yu: I think the whole passing Gong activities of Li Hongzhi have its political purposes. Firstly he sets up organizations. Generally speaking, Falu Dafa Research Association is the highest level, which is directly controlled by Li Hongzhi. Then there are general tutorial stations, tutorial stations and practicing spots. And big tutorial stations are divided into different parts. The organization composes altogether five levels.

As to the administrative organization of "Falun Gong", Li Hongzhi not only controlled Research  Association, but also controlled sub-stations and tutorial stations. One head of a sub-station of Beijing raised a question in a meeting, but Li Hongzhi could not answer and did not know what was going on with the question. At that time Li Hongzhi said, your mind was in chaos and I would not answer your question. Later Li Hongzhi asked the chief of Beijing station to replace the head. And he said the head was not competent for his duty. That is to say, Li Hongzhi will replace people who do not obey him.

Moreover, when we sent Li Hongzhi to America, he sent for the chief of Beijing station. The chief asked him for direction. Li Hongzhi said, you should not bring in old men and women only, you should bring in more young people, who would be beneficial to the further development of "Falun Gong". And this was the task of Beijing station, and it should bring in young followers. In addition, Li Hongzhi also asked Beijing general tutorial station to set up some operational organizations, such as "Learning Fa Team of Old People" which was constituted with old cadres above deputy bureau level. This team had already been set up and I had attended one of its meetings. He also asked Beijing general tutorial station to set up a "Literature Activities Team", which was already set up; and a "Scientists Team", which was constituted by researchers, professors and a few graduate students. I was clear that Li Hongzhi's intention of setting up these teams was political and evil. Whenever he wanted to attack the Government, he could utilize these teams immediately.

Q: Any other detailed examples?

Yu: Li Hongzhi always said "Falun Gong" had no organization; actually it was not true. For example, besieging Beijing Television Station and media were pre-arranged and pre-organized. I knew something about the besiegement against Beijing Television Station. The television station said that they would do nothing but broadcast a practicing scene of "Falun Gong"; they would not apologize or make corrections. When Li Hongzhi realized that his objective was not met, he was unsatisfied. I asked Li Chang what Li Hongzhi said. Li Chang said that Li Hongzhi asked him, "Lao Li, I told you every detailed thing but fail to mention 'dispatching 10 thousand followers'. And this thing was not converted without this single sentence. I asked Li Chang what's the meaning of being converted. He said that it was not asking Beijing Television Station to apologize; it was to force the government to admit the legal status of "Falun Gong". Another example was the book of "Zhuan Falun". After the book was run up, I called Li Hongzhi and told him that the book had been published and I had got some. He asked me to send him one and I went to his place by bus. At that time he lived in Dongdan and Liu Guirong was there. After I sent the book to him, he just browsed it quickly. Then he put the book on the end table in front of the sofa and said that this would be a bomb with great power. At that time I did not think it had political purpose, because Li Hongzhi claimed again and again that he would not attend politics, not oppose the government and not throw himself into the lap of hostile forces. However, when I think about this thing now, how the book of "Falun Gong" can be compared with a bomb? From the ambition of Li Hongzhi, the purpose of publishing the book  "Zhuan Falun" was to bomb the government, which clearly showed his political ambitions and intentions.

Q: According to your understanding and experience, could you tell me why "Falun Gong" was able to bewitch so many people?

Yu: At first, when Li Hongzhi created "Falun Gong", it was very fraudulent. I thought Li Hongzhi made full use of three "baits", and that was why so many people had been bewitched and "Falun Gong" had developed so many adherents. The first "bait" was "Curing illness and strengthening health", which catered for the psychology of some people with illness. Li Hongzhi said, "after you enter into my class and believe in me, I shall cure your illness and I can cure every kind of illness. You will come even you think your illness is very severe, and I promise there is no risk of life." That is to say, one can cure his illness without eating medicine, which is very attractive. Therefore, there were more and more people in his class. Moreover, at the beginning he cured illness at the same time he managed his classes. He said that it was to obtain fame. "Falun Gong" just came to Beijing and was not developed yet. So it was necessary to attract more and more people to understand and practice "Falun Gong". Then, there were more and more followers in his class. And there were even 4000 people in a class in the late period. At that time I got coronary heart disease, hypertension and chronic atrophic gastritis. Therefore when someone introduced the Gong of Li Hongzhi to me, I attended the first class. His lecture was so fantastic that I did not believe it, and I practiced Gong and took medicine at the same time. Later Li Hongzhi told us, if you practiced Gong and took medicine at the same time, it meant you did not believe that "Falun Gong" could cure your illness. If you believed in it, you should stop your medicine and had a try. he promised there was no risk of life. Therefore I stopped my medicine. After the incident of 4.25, the government sent a doctor to make a check-up for me. My blood pressure was very high, from 180 to 200. And according to the cardiogram, my coronary heart disease was severe and the t wave was upset. Later they compared my illness with my case history. They told me, why you believe that "Falun Gong" can cure your illness. Your heart disease was more severe than before.

The situation of my wife was just the same. She was also an intellectual with highest title of a technical post, and also retired for illness. After getting illness, she was so anxious that she asked almost every doctor for help. It was heard that "Falun Gong" can cure illness, she began to practice it immediately and requested Li Hongzhi to cure her twice, but she was not recovered. Later when I sent books to Li Hongzhi, I brought my wife with me. Li Hongzhi told her that she did not get illness. Later he told me in particular that there was a huge dragon in her body, she would go to the heaven with the huge dragon after obtaining consummation. Actually he was cheating us. So my wife always felt sick. I compiled two books of practicing stories, and a lot of people began to practice "Falun Gong" after reading these two books. In the books there were some cases of curing illness and strengthening health, and I did not check them up. Actually, the illnesses of my wife and me were not cured. Therefore, Li Hongzhi`s claim that "Falun Gong" could cure illness bewitched a lot of people.

Q: Li Hongzhi had three "baits", you just talked about the first one, what was the second?

Yu: The second bait of Li Hongzhi was "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance". At that time this trick was illusive. Most of people believed in truthfulness, compassion and tolerance. He just made use of people's psychology and cheated people to practice his Gong. He boasted that "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance" is the highest Buddha Dharma. He said Buddha Dharma was just like a pyramid and the highest point was the highway that could be summed up as "truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance". That is to say the only standard of adjusting whether you are a good man is "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance". He also made use of the frightful phenomena in the society, which people felt revolting against. Therefore he claimed that there were full of frightful phenomena in the society and only his "Falun Gong" was able to provide a pure land. Then he made use of the psychology of people to attract followers. He said "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance" he talked about is just in the Dafa and in "Zhuan Falun". Although "Zhuan Falun" has 300 thousand to 400 thousand words, it can be generalized as the three words of "truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance". So you would become a good man and obtain a good future if you read his books. I think "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance" Li Hongzhi talked about is not true because his behaviors doesn`t meet the standard of "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance". I can show this with his behaviors. For example, when he held class in Ha'erbin and when one class was over, followers just went back to where they lived. However, the illness of one follower broke out, and he died after sent to hospital. Later the body of the follower was carried to the class. But Li Hongzhi just ran away from the back door. Here he just showed his compassion. When people need your compassion, where were you? As to the issue of tolerance, I think he was nothing to do with tolerance according to my memory, actually he always be furious. The first time I saw him in anger was when the newspaper "Gui Zhou Qigong" criticized Falun Gong. Some others and I were there with him. After he answered a telephone call, he was so angry that his face turned red. He complained to himself and did not utter a word for a while. At that time I thought what the criticism was and why he felt so furious. Why not tolerate? And this was his teaching... Therefore "truthfulness, compassion, tolerance" he boasted was just to attract people and to make preparation for opposing the government in the future. This was another bait of Li Hongzhi.

Q: Anything else?

Yu: The third "bait" was "eliminating sins( or karma)" and "releasing people's soul", which was another way of Li Hongzhi to cheat people. He said people were reincarnated and the soul was eternal. If someone had "sins", there would be more "sins" in the next life. My wife and I began to practice "Falun Gong" just because we got illness. After hearing his words, I began to think whether my illness came from my preexistence. I was afraid that if I was reincarnated from a bad guy, I would suffer disasters if I didn't eliminate the "sins". Then I believed in his words of "eliminating sins". Actually this is a fallacy. He said his Buddha Dharma are the highest Buddha Dharma and he indicated he was the most powerful Buddha, higher than Sakyamuni and Jesus. He could help you "eliminate sins" no matter you listened to his lections or not, no matter you read "Zhuan Falun" or not. As to the book  "Zhuan Falun", every word in it was a "Falun". And every word was even his "Dharma Body". The "Falun" of his could help you cure your illness and strengthen your health. He said it is "releasing people's soul". In the second half of his book of "Explanations on Falun Dafa", he said: "People will meet four catastrophes, the first is flood, the second is earthquake, the third is wars and the last is plague. The four catastrophes will wash out some bad guys. And the 'truthfulness, compassion, tolerance' is the only standard of judging good and bad people, and it can help you to escape from the catastrophes. Although your 'sins' are severe, Master can help you eliminate most of them if only you sincerely practice my Falun Gong. However, the sins left will be too severe to pass away. Then I will decompose your 'sins', so you can eliminate 'sins' one by one. When you fell you are always in sick, it is actually a good thing because your sins are eliminated one by one". Now I know it is just a cheating trick. When I felt my illness did not get cured, he would say I still had "sins"! However, as a "Dafa" backbone member and who stayed with him for a long time, my "sins" still could not be eliminated. And the sins of those station chiefs can`t be eliminated. Then how the sins of those who can`t see Li Hongzhi and those who spend less time in practicing can be eliminated? Therefore his eliminating sins" and "releasing people's soul" are just illusive tricks.

I think the influences of his three "baits" are very bad, which deceived millions of people to practice his Gong. All these people were hooked and cheated by the three "baits". Then he gradually enlarged his troops and tried to achieve his political goals. I feel that the three "baits" are grisly.

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: At present some people are still obsessed with "Falun Gong". In your opinion, why "Falun Gong" has such great controlling power?

Yu: In my opinion, the reason that some people, including me, are obsessed with "Falun Gong" and cannot break away from it is that Li Hongzhi has three "maledictions". Once a person is hooked up, he will try to control you. I think the most evil thing of "Falun Gong" is mental control.

I think the first "malediction" is "Regarding the Lections as Master". Li Hongzhi always paid special attention to this point and talked about it frequently. He said he "will not pass Gong any more, and people who want to practice Gong should read his books. And people can get everything by reading his books". Moreover, he demanded followers not to read his books carefully. He said in a shot paper that some followers did not read and recite his books in the right way; they tried to understand the exact meaning of every sentence. He said if you read the books too carefully, you would get nothing. I understand his meaning. The meaning is that his books cannot be read carefully, not only the grammar, but also the contents. He taught followers an "exclusive method", which required followers not read any other books, in particular Qigong books. I think he has plagiarized the contents of other books. If followers read other books, they would know. Once in a meeting held in Beijing general tutorial station, followers discussed how to learn "Dafa". They brought forward a slogan, "Read 'Dafa', Mend spirit and Practice movement". They thought it was not bad. Later I told them, how about to add one word in each phrase of the slogan and changed it to "Read 'Dafa' carefully, Mend spirit genuinely and Practice movement hardly". Then they cited the slogan in the experiences of followers and all of them thought it was good. However, after Li Hongzhi read the material, he interrogated me once I met with him. He asked me wethwer it was  my idea to write the three phrases. I said it was me who wrote it, but I did not explain the process. He said that I was destroying his "Dafa". What`s the meaning of reading carefully? You should just read it and you should not try to understand the meaning. He said, all the lections monks read were translated from ancient Indian language, but they could practice Buddhism by reading those lections. Li Hongzhi tried to hook people with the "Regarding the Lections as Master". Otherwise, if he did not pass Gong, why "Falun Gong" could continue its development? This is a very important reason that these people are still obsessed with it. Li Hongzhi was lulling and controlling them. I think this is the content of "Regarding the Lections as Master".

Q: What is the second "malediction"?

Yu: I think his second "malediction" is "dharma-body protection". Li Hongzhi boasted that he had numerous "dharma-body" and he could protect all the followers even if the people of the entire world were practitioners of "Falun Gong". After followers were protected by his "dharma-body", they would not be disturbed by outside world and not be invaded. He also threatened that his "dharma-body" would know every thought of the follower. For example, his "dharma-body" would know that whether you went to besiege media or not and that was the reason that he knew some people didn't attend the besiegement. I once received a call; the person who called me said that he did not attend the besiegement. I told me that it was all right. But he said what if Master knew about this. I said Master would forgive you if he knew it. This example showed that he tightly controlled followers and all the followers were afraid of his control. Therefore, it meant that you could not obtain "consummation" if you didn't besiege media, sign your name or go to the Tian'anmen Square and attend the self-immolation incident. The followers just thought that Master would know whether he attended or not, and they would not obtain "consummation" and their practice before would be in vain. In fact, it is the "dharma-body protection" which controls people. In another words, the psychological state of the followers is a little abnormal. So this malediction is very powerful. If the practitioners don't follower his directions, the "dharma-body" will know it and the practitioners will be punished.

Q: What is the third "malediction"?

Yu: I think the third "malediction" of Li Hongzhi is "the final consummation". He said "the final consummation means that you become a Buddha and you can go to the heaven. In east, this is called Buddha; while in west it is called God." He said, "the world of Buddha is nice; you can get anything you want. And this is the merits and virtues of your practices. So if you cannot obtain consummation by practicing, you will be still in the 'Six-way Metempsychosis' and you will become plants, animals or substance. Even if you can become a human being again, you will have your rough time and endure hardships again. So 'consummation' is the eventual goal of practice." According to this idea, some people did want to "make great improvement" and "practice concretely", or their practices before would be in vain. Therefore some people did not care about their family and spent all the time on "learning Fa and practicing concretely". In order to obtain "consummation", some people paid no attention to family affection. Li Hongzhi said that going to Tian'anmen Square was the last step to "consummation". I thought it was because that Li Hongzhi was in the dead end and he could not cheat people without this final trick. However, in order to obtain "consummation", some people did burn themselves. They did not care about their families and their own lives. All the followers died because of self-immolation, self-hanging, committing suicide, cutting belly, or jumping down just wanted to obtain "consummation". I think this trick is very venomous.

According to my personal experience, Li Hongzhi attracted people with the three "baits" firstly, and then he controlled these people with the three "maledictions". I am a typical example. I was just controlled by the "maledictions" and read "Zhuan Falun" without paying attention to outside world. I did not realize the reality until the incident of 4.25. After the incident my leaders (in my working unit) talked with me for many times, but I was not repentant to my fault until I was censored separately. My leaders pointed out my mistake seriously and criticized me severely. At that time I began to be awakened to "Falun Gong". In particular, after I read a material disclosing "Falun Gong", I began to realize the real characteristics of Li Hongzhi and the essence of "Falun Gong" gradually. And by then I was able to break away from the mental control of the three "maledictions". After I broke away from the control, I felt relaxed and my life was good. According to my experience, to those who are very obsessed, they can not get away from the "maledictions" without the help of outside forces". They are afraid of the punishment if the "dharma body" of Li Hongzhi knows. So with the help of outside forces, they can break away from the three "maledictions" by reviewing the whole thing. It's more difficult to get out only by oneself. This is my personal opinion.

Q: What do want to talk to those practitioners who are still obsessed with "Falun Gong"?

Yu: In review of my experiences, those practitioners should awake as soon as possible, which will be beneficial to the people and the country. Now the real face of Li Hongzhi and "Falun Gong" has become well know. Colluding with "Democratic" activists, "Taiwan Independence" activists, "Tibet Independence" activists and national splitting activists, Li Hongzhi has become a political tool of western anti-China forces. Therefore, we should make a prompt decision and break from Li Hongzhi and "Falun Gong" completely. As a "Falun Gong" backbone member who was so obsessed, I can be repentant. I think those practitioners will be transformed. I believe they will be transformed soon under the guideline of "solidarity, education and retrieval". In particular, after watching the recent report of the self-immolation incident in Tian'anmen Square, they will understand the Cult essence of Li Hongzhi. And the people will forgive you; the country will welcome you if you are transformed. This is what I want to say.

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: In the conversation of last time, you concentrated on how Li Hongzhi cheated people and controlled people with "three maledictions". In your opinion, what was the purpose of Li Hongzhi?

Yu: After a year's education and help provided by leaders and governments of all levels, I believe the purpose of Li Hongzhi is to realize his political intention. The key question of him is the political intention and political ambition. And his ambition expanded from small to big and was uncovered step by step.

In my opinion, the original intention of Li Hongzhi was to earn some money and become famous. With the development of "Falun Gong", he wanted to be the head of Qigong circle. Then, he wanted to dominate Buddhist circle and become a spiritual leader. When "Falun Gong" was greatly developed and he was rich and powerful, he wanted to control the government and dominate everything.

There were several aspects in his way to become the head of Qigong circle. The first was to drive up himself and drive up the status of "Falun Gong". He said he had four kinds of power. He could not only "provide Falun", but also "open heavenly eyes". People would get rid of any kind of illness after entering into his class. He had the power to cure all diseases. He said he could cure the diseases of all the human beings in the world by just raising his hand. The other aspect was to debase other Qigong. He said his "Falun Gong" was the highest and most intensive Gong in the universe. And it was the most wonderful and remarkable science in the whole world. He said other Qigong masters were from lower levels and their Gong just came from the ghosts attached to their bodies. He said the ghost attached to a Qigong master was weasel, and his Gong was the Gong of weasel. And he also said there is a fox with a blinded eye bended over the other Qigong master and his Gong was the Gong of fox. All of those Gongs were crooked ones. By doing so he debased other Qigong. I also boasted for him at that time, boasted the power of Li Hongzhi and "Falun Gong". I told others that Li Hongzhi was not an ordinary Qigong master; he was "releasing the souls". And "Falun Gong" was different from other Qigong in the society; they were not on the same level. I wrote these praises in the appendix of "Zhuan Falun". Li Hongzhi agreed with my praises after reading them.

When Li Hongzhi found that there were more and more "Falun Gong" practitioners, he was not satisfied any more and he wanted to become a spiritual leader. Then he changed his birthday. I knew that in 1994, and he changed his birthday to April 8 of Chinese lunar calendar, which is the birthday of Sakyamuni. By doing so he indicated that he was the reincarnation of Sakyamuni. However, Li Hongzhi said later that he was higher than Sakyamuni. He said that he was the highest "dharma" in the Buddha Dharma, and even the "dharma" of Sakyamuni were lower than his. He said that even Sakyamuni was just in his real world. And where the real world was? Li Hongzhi said that it was the peak of the material world, and he was in the world of "Falun", in the highest Buddhist world in the universe. Li Hong zhi said, "this body of mine is sitting here and teaching you 'lections', but this body is just made up. My real body is in the heaven and he is looking at me. If it is my real body who is teaching lections here, there will be a golden Buddha sitting there, and all the people, even those evil people will learn and listen to my lections". In late 1996, an international communication meeting was held in the Ditan Park in Beijing. Most of the contents of Li Hongzhi focused on the issue of the future Buddha. All the listeners understood his meaning at once. I remembered that someone asked me as soon as the meeting was over. He told me that he did not understand one sentence of Li Hongzhi before, but today he realized that Li Hongzhi is Buddha Maitreya. Because Sakyamuni used to say that Buddha Maitreya was his successor. According to the lection of Li Hongzhi, it was clear that he was the future Buddha Buddha Maitreya. Thus, he clearly stated that he was the powerful Buddha, dominator and protector of the universe. Since he said he was the most powerful Buddha, it seemed reasonable that he became the spiritual leader.

In my memory it was in 1994 when Li Hongzhi went to take pictures in Chinese Picture-Taking Shop in Beijing with Liu Guirong, and he also called Lan Jianhua and me to go with him. He said that he wanted to take a picture for certification. After the certification picture was taken, Li Hongzhi asked Liu Guirong to bring his bag. And Liu Guirong handed a bag to Li Hongzhi. Then Li Hongzhi entered the dressing room and I didn't know the reason at that time. After Li Hongzhi got out of the dressing room, I saw him in cassock, the gown of monks. Then he sat cross-legged and took a few pictures. At that time I had a very clear feeling that his picture was as same as the Amitabha. Li Hongzhi thought, with the rapid development of "Falun Gong", he was very powerful and he was satisfied with spiritual leader anymore. He wanted to control the society. And that was why he indicated many times that he had a lot of reincarnations in the history. He used to be Li Shimin, Kangxi, Yue Fei and so on. Moreover, he was William XIV in England besides being the emperors of China. By doing so he just wanted to indicate that he could dominate the human society. In his poem entitled "Visiting the Mausoleum of Qing Dynasty", there were following sentences: "Three hundred years just passed away, the old palaces and tombs are already dilapidated. However, the history will be repeated in present day, and the lections will last for ever". He clearly claimed that he was the reincarnation of emperor Kangxi, and he came to the present world again.

He always talked about the bad things about the government, the country and the society, such as demoralization, bad ethos, driving for money and so on. Some people dared to do anything for money and even the government could not control. Only my "Falun Gong" could provide a pure land. This meant that his "Falun Gong" was a pure land and he could control what the government couldn`t.

Moreover, we can understand his purpose from the books he read. After he went abroad, Li Guirong sent all the books he read and there were totally more than 20 sorts of books. These books can be divided into two categories, one is about religion, and the other is about the dominating skills of emperors, in which there is "Li Shimin's Skill of Ruling People". This indicates that once he becomes an emperor, he can make use of these dominating skills.

Q: You just said that Li Hongzhi had his political intentions and ambitions by making use of "Falun Gong". Could you tell me what kind of things he has done in order to realize his political intentions and ambitions, and how?

Yu: The first thing was the preparation of public opinions. Li Hongzhi made great efforts in it. He propagandized his heretical theories by any channels and any ways. Firstly, he held classes of Falun Gong; he had held more than 50 classes in more than ten provinces, cities and autonomous regions all over the country. However, the number of people who attended the classes was limited. In order to expand his forces, enlarge his influences and build public opinions, he prepared to publish books. Form March of 1994 to the end of 1998, he published 18 kinds of books. I edited some of the books and some others were not edited by me. But all these books were sent to publishing house by me. As far as I knew, the total number was 3.4 million. Moreover, I had attended the production of 4 kinds of audio and video productions and the total numbers were more than 3 million. He said Falun Gong should publish more books so as to expand influence in remote areas. A lot of people had no books to read and in some region more than ten people read one book. Later, in early July, 1996, General Administration of Press and Publication of China released an inner announcement of confiscating four books of "Falun Gong", then the publishing house didn't want to publish the four books anymore. Then Li Hongzhi said, "we should publish pirate books and we could print books in printing factories directly". He told me, Lao Yu, you could tell those who were in charge of printing books that they could print "pirates are allowable, boundless beneficence" on the back cover. This showed that Li Hongzhi didn't care about the national law in the issue of publishing books and made use of mean methods as much as possible. In addition, he produced some badges, including "Falun Badge", printed photos and wall maps and so on in order to inspire public opinions. I feel that one thing can explain his ambition. When the book of "Zhuan Falun" was firstly published, Li Hongzhi said it was a "bomb with great power". At that time I didn't regard it as a political issue since Li Hongzhi repeatedly said he would not be involved in politics. Now I realize that the reason that Li Hongzhi pays attention to this book is that he regards this book as an important weapon of deceiving people, attracting followers and struggling with the Communist Party in the ideological sphere. In the process of inspiring public opinions, especially during the process of publishing books, audio and video productions, I actively engaged in it and I was the right hand of Li Hongzhi. Therefore I am really sinful since I have helped Li Hongzhi propagandize his heretical theories. I realize that I have made a great damage to some people, the society and our country and some damages cannot be remedied. I think the only thing I should do is to remedy as much as possible in prison.

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: Just now you talked about the preparation on public opinions of Li Hongzhi, could you talk about the preparations on other aspects?

Yu: Li Hongzhi also paid special attention to the aspect of organizations. When he held class in a place, he would set up the organization there before the class was over. The class I attended was held in Zhenzhou. At that day he called us together. There were about six to seven people. He asked us to make preparation for setting up a tutorial station in Zhenzhou. And he just appointed us to do this thing. And he appointed one of us as the charge of the preparation. He paid special attention to this aspect and it was just the same in Beijing. Wang Zhiwen once told me that general tutorial stations were set up in the cities where Li Hongzhi held classes, and stations in other cities were called tutorial stations. The highest level was "Research Association", then general tutorial station, tutorial station, sub-tutorial station and practicing point. So the power of "Research Association" was great, it not only had organizations, but also moved fast. And its power was granted by Li Hongzhi. Li Hongzhi said in the book of "Meaning Explanation" and in classes that practitioners should follow the provisions and directions of "Research Association" because he approved them. Even when he was not there, "Research Association" reported everything to him by fax or telephone. The directions, after his revision, were sent back and then transmitted to the followers. So the followers should follow the directions of "Research Association". Therefore "Research Association" was very powerful and practitioners would attach the directions to Li Hongzhi. So it was very efficient. When Li Hongzhi had some directions, he would release lections. After he wrote his directions, he gave it to Ji Liewu personally or faxed to his home. Since Wang Xiaoyan, the wife of Ji Liewu could type; she typed it and sent to the 38 stations all over the country. Or they faxed to some main stations such as Changchun, Dalian, Jinan, Wuhan, Guangzhou and so on. Another way was telephone. Then the directions of Li Hongzhi were spread quickly. The spreading time would be less than two days.

After organizations at different levels were established, Li Hongzhi set up a set of regulations. He drafted a requirement for general tutorial stations of "Falun Dafa", criterion for tutors and notice for practitioners in person. Except these regulations there was a "constitution". This "constitution" was drafted out in the first book "China Falun Gong", which was drafted by me according to the model Li Chang gave me. Later, Li Hongzhi told me that the book should be revised and the "constitution" should be removed. Now I realize the reason is that Li Hongzhi is afraid to expose his political intention. Since he claimed that there were no organizations, there should be no "constitutions". At present, although the "constitution" was removed, it actually existed and "Falun Gong" was run according to the "constitution".

As to the development of organization, Li Hongzhi attached special importance to young people. Li Hongzhi said that "Dafa" should be come down for ever, which could not realized only by old people. Young people should be the successors. Since his thought was passed to all the tutorial stations all over the county, the tutorial stations also attached importance to developing young people, even students. And it not only included college students, but also included high school and primary school students, even students in kindergartens. I once watched a photo in which a few five or six years old lovely children practiced Gong cross legged, which showed that they had practiced for a long time. This is the development status. Moreover, I watched a kinescope of one communication meeting in Dalian at the home of Wang Zhiwen, in which a mother held a three years old child in her arms, and the mother asked the child to recite a paragraph of lection. Since his "Dafa" should be come down for ever, there should be young successors. From this I want to say, if the government didn't ban "Falun Gong", the political ambition of Li Hongzhi will be out of control.

The other form was the base for developing backup forces. He thought the base should have two tasks. One was to train some backbone members, such as chief of station. And the other task of the base was to teach "Falun Gong" to foreigners. And foreigners who wanted to learn "Falun Gong" should learn it in the base. Someone suggested a place in Huailai county of Hebei province, just in the north of Guanting reservoir. He checked it up with some members of "Research Association". But after a while he said he wouldn't establish the base near Beijing. I thought from his heart, he didn't want to give up the base. And the reason was that he was compelled by the political situation at that time. In June 1996, "Guang Ming Daily" published a criticizing article against "Falun Gong", which was the first attack towards "Falun Gong". The article said "Zhuan Falun" was blind faith and heretical theories, and people should be alarmed against it. Then in July, General Administration of Press and Publication of China began to confiscate 4 books of "Falun Gong". I found that Li Hongzhi was a very sensitive man. He realized that the government was noticing him and the base should not be set up.

The third was the preparation of property. In this aspect Li Hongzhi accumulated money from many channels. Originally, the channels included holding classes, curing illness, selling material. Later the channels included publishing books, audio and video publications, and wall maps. Since 1996 he transferred the issue of publishing books and materials to Wuhan Shenshen Company. As far as I knew, he earned five to six million yuan by selling books in the Mainland China. In addition, he registered a "Falun Fofa Publishing Company" in Hong Kong. One part of the books published there was transported to Mainland and the other part was transport Southeastern Asia. Moreover, this "Falun fofa Publishing Company" was in charge of signing contract with foreign buyers and paying author's remuneration to Li Hongzhi. He gained some money from this channel. In my opinion, his purpose of accumulating money was to achieve his political intention abroad.

The fourth was the preparation of throwing himself into the lap of hostile forces. He claimed that he would not pass Gong in China from the end of 1994. And after the last class held in Guangzhou he would not pass Gong in China. He thought that the force of "Falun Gong" was already stable with the development of practicing points. And the chiefs were reliable. Therefore he wanted to develop "Falun Gong" in foreign countries. In March 1995 he went abroad. The focus of him was America. He thought he would have a base in foreign county even "Falun Gong" would be intervened or even cancelled by the government. Every time after passing Gong, he set up a tutorial station, which was his base. Therefore Li Hongzhi took a fancy to America and decided to go to America later. I said he was moving his nest to America. In the spring or summer of 1996, Li Chang told me that Master wanted to pass the procedure of going abroad, and he needed recommendations of five to six famous people. He said since I was a professor, I was a famous man, and then I should recommend him. I needed to do nothing but write my name in the blank letter pad with the name of a college, and I should not write the date. I did it according to the direction of Li Chang, and I provided my help for the escape of Li Hongzhi.

Yu Changxin was a backbone member of Falun Gong, who directly attended the organizing and planning of a lot of important activities of Falun Gong and kept a close relationship with Li Hongzhi. An interview with Yu Changxin on February 5, 2001 disclosed many real and concrete details and inside information. The personal narration of a senior Falun Gong member with such a special status and experiences - "nuncupative history" - was able to provide very important references for realizing and researching Falun Gong.


Q: You just said that the political ambition of Li Hongzhi was expanded gradually, and he made a lot of preparations. According to your understanding, could you tell me how he put his political intentions to practice?

Yu: In my memory, the process of organizing "Falun Gong" can be divided into four steps. The first step is to "pass Gong and promote Fa" and to expand its forces. And there are five forms. The first form is to pass Gong between friends and relatives. For example, I was introduced by one of my friends that Li Hongzhi would hold class in the night of June 25, my friend said to me I could go and listen to it since his class is different with other classes, then I attended the class. This form regarded one person as a center and diffused "Falun Gong" from it. The second form is to increase practicing points, for example, at that time there was no practicing point in Zhongshan Park in Beijing, and then he redeployed some followers in a practicing point in Xicheng District to Zhongshan Park. Moreover, he appointed a follower to propagandize the characteristics of "Falun Gong" and one tutor to explain "Falun Gong" there. Through this practicing point he tried to influence the neighboring areas and continued to expand "Falun Gong". The third form is the large-scale practice of thousands of followers. This form can be used to attract some people, but it also contains political elements. And Li Hongzhi also wants to use this form to teach media a lesson by showing Falun Gong`s strength that the hundreds of followers can respond to get together in a single call. If media dare to criticize, Falun Gong can call more people to besiege you. The second meaning of this form is to bring pressure to the central government. Since there are so many Falun Gong practitioners, it is not fair that Falun Gong cannot be registered. So the large-scale practice of thousands of followers is a form come into being after the criticism of media. It is developed with the changes of situation and it contains political elements. The fourth form is to hold classes in remote areas by utilizing the audio and video productions of Li Hongzhi. The procedures and methods of this kind of class is the same with the form of holding class in other areas by Li Hongzhi personally. Actually they were classed held in the way of Li Hongzhi without his presence. The fifth form is  so--called "communication meeting", in simple words, Fa conference. For example, someone tells you that he has a ticket and you can go and listen to it. By this way those who doesn't practice "Falun Gong" just go to the meeting. Li Hongzhi himself finally confirms these five forms.

The second step of Li Hongzhi was to figure out the legal status for Falun Gong by writing to the central government. "Falun Gong Research Association" was firstly put forward in March of 1996. At that time Li Hongzhi claimed to quit (Qigong Research Association of China). By the end of December, Qigong Research Association issued a formal document that it did not allow "Falun Gong" to register. Then from the January of 1997, in the direction of Li Hongzhi, Ye Hao and Li Chang tried to find a superior department and let Falun Gong to attach to it. The purpose of Li Hongzhi is to break away from Qigong Research Association and get out of its control. At that time the central government had a Qigong leading team composed by nine people, he (Li Hongzhi) always said the nine people team did not support Qigong and they were just preventing the emergence of Yi Hetuan(a rebellious mass organization in the late Qing Dynasty). I felt Li Hongzhi had a guilty conscience at that time. Then Li Chang drafted the first letter to The United Front Working Department of CPC Central Committee with the purpose of registering as an association, and the name was "Falun Buddhist Association". At the end of September of 1997, maybe on September 27, the United Front Working Department of CPC Central Committee replied the application of "Falun Gong". In my memory, two sentences of the replying document impressed me most, one was that they did not support and approve the registration of "Falun Buddhist Association", the other was that it should be alerted to prevent "Falun Gong" from developing into a Cult organization.

At July or August, General Administration of Press and Publication of China released a document like "Situation Reflection", which reflected the seamy side of "Falun Gong". Falun Gong managed to get this document and I once saw a copy of it. Since this document influenced the registration, they decided to write letter to Premier Zhu and President Jiang and accused General Administration of Press and Publication of China. They said that the document of General Administration of Press and Publication of China was not true and deceived leaders of central government. In fact, they were calling white black. I attended the drafting process and I put forward a suggestion. I said why not adding one point that it was the "Guang Ming Daily" and General Administration of Press and Publication of China who firstly criticized "Falun Gong" and caused media all over the country began to criticize "Falun Gong", their influences were bad. And Li Chang also put forward a suggestion, he said this time it should be more than a petition signed by several people, this letter should be written in the name of old cadres' team. Therefore, they held a meeting of old cadres' team, which was claimed to be "Studying Fa Communication Meeting" to the outside world, and several people made speeches in the meeting. Then Li Hongzhi rushed into the meeting with Liu Guirong and Ji Liewu. Li Hongzhi introduced the situation of passing Gong in foreign countries and the situation of domestic development. And then he asked what kind of problems we should raise, and after that Li Hongzhi went out. After reading the letter to the leaders of central government, these old cadres signed it. I realized the purpose of Li Hongzhi at that time, he didn't want to talk about the issue or answer any questions there. His purpose was to encourage these old cadres to accuse General Administration of Press and Publication of China collectively. This was the second letter.

The third letter was written in August or September, Li Chang called me to the house of Ye Hao at Bai Shi Bridge. When I went there, there were already six to seven man of Beijing Tutorial Station, and some people were from "Research Association". Li Chang held a paper in his hand and said that he received a telephone from a county in Xinjiang. The man who called him said that the first Bureau of Public Security Department issued a No. 555 notice, which announced to restrict the activities of "Falun Gong". Li Chang said we might make use of the form of last letter and write to the premier, and all of us agreed. Later we had a discussion and decided to divide the letter into the main content and appendix. When we discussed about the main content, we felt the letter of Liu Shuren (drafter) was not bad. I added two sentences, I suggested that the reason that the policeman of grass roots dared to act wildly against law and public opinion was that the announcement of Public Security Department. And the action of the policeman had a bad influence. They thought this sentence was good and then put it in the letter. Li Chang suggested that the second letter was signed by about twenty people, why not to hand in a letter signed by hundreds of people, which would be more powerful and convincible. All of us agreed and we collected hundreds of signatures. Those who came from "Research Association" and Beijing Tutorial Station knew clearly there were some people died and some people were psychologically disordered. I knew two cases, one died in Jinan and the other died in the class of Ha Erbin. However, we quibblingly blamed others without referring to these deaths and made use of every method to accuse Public Security Department, this was calling white black. I felt we were very abominable by writing these two letters. And my two suggestions were also very bad.

The fourth letter was written to chairman Li Ruihuan. One day at the end of that year, Li Chang told me that Chen Xingqiao, a chief officer of Buddhism Association wrote a book entitled "Buddhist Qigong and Falun Gong", in which he criticized "Falun Gong". Li Chang said the Buddhism Association was under the leadership of CPPCC, so we decided to write a letter to chairman Li Ruihuan and accused Buddhism Association.

After returning from foreign country, Li Hongzhi read the letter to The United Front Working Department of CPC Central Committee and the letter accusing Administration of Press and Publication. He was then at the home of Li Chang. He said these letters were well written and were powerful, in particular the letter accusing Administration of Press and Publication. Why Li Hongzhi said it was powerful, because he was furious that "Guang Ming Daily" firstly criticized "Falun Gong". He then called to Li Chang from Southeastern Asia and asked him to organize followers to write letters to it ("Guang Ming Daily"), or to write letters to Administration of Press and Publication. Then they organized the followers all over the country to write letters. I heard that the letters to "Guang Ming Daily" were so many that they filled two big bags. From then on Li Hongzhi pushed all the followers to the front line in realization of  his political purposes. In succession, Li Hongzhi wrote a "Great Exposal", which criticized some people who dared not to besiege media. Now I feel that the "Great Exposal" is actually a mobilization order. Li Hongzhi just wants to check out whether his followers will follow his directions or not and whether followers will follow him at the crucial moment. He told the followers who dared not to go out, what were you afraid of? Some follower's words were very good, they said their body would continue to sit cross-legged even they were beheaded. After the release of "Great Exposal", some practitioners felt very repentant, they were repentant of not writing letters or not besieging media. And they were very active in the later activities against media. For example, a practitioner in Beijing called me. He asked me whether it would influence his "consummation" since he didn't attend the besiegement. The influence of "Great Exposal" of Li Hongzhi was very bad, and this method was very acrimonious and his intention was malicious. From then on, from 1998, in the second half of the year particularly, the "Research Association" did not research "the theory and method of Gong" any more, however, it focused on how to deal with media and the government.

The third step was besiegement and public demonstration. Li Hongzhi told Li Chang, if soft actions didn't work and writing letters didn't work, then we should be hardliners. We could sent people there, sent people to talk with them. As to the besiegement, the number of participants became greater and the scale of besiegement were getting larger. It's influences were so bad that it was just like a cancer, Falun Gong had become a constant force that influence the stabilization of the society. As far as I knew, the typical besiegement included besiegement against Qi Lu Wanbao, Beijing Television Station and Central Government.

Firstly let me talk about the besiegement against the newspaper "Qi Lu Wanbao". I heard about it from Wang Zhiwen. He said they had come there for many times, but there were not many participants. At the beginning there were only several followers, later ten, and at last twenty to thirty followers. And it became a stalemate.

The chief of Jinan Tuotorial Station wrote a material and mailed to the newspaper, and he also released it to fellow practitioners. One day he gave three copies to Wang Zhiwen, and Li Xiaomei gave it to me when she passed my home one day. She told me to have a look. In the material there was a sentence that he said the criticism of newspaper had its active aspect. I felt uncomfortable at the first time I read it. I thought, if the thousands of newspapers all over the country criticized "Falun Gong" together and you still thought it had active aspect, then "Falun Gong" would be brought down. Then I wrote "this is capitulation" above the sentence. After reading it, Jinan Station's pressure was so great that later Zhang Shouqiang organized eight to nine hundred people to besiege Qi Lu Wanbao and forced the newspaper to apologize. As to the besiegement, I played a very bad role.

Another besiegement was against Beijing Television Station. Before that besiegement I had attended three meetings. The first meeting was held in May 27 and 28, in which we discussed the present situation that Beijing Television Station attacked "Falun Gong" in the "Express Train" program and He Zuoxiu attacked Falun Gong, we wanted to argue with them. I didn't make speech at that time, but I agreed with it. Then they continued to find followers. In June 1, Li Chang called me to a meeting, the participants included heads of Beijing Tutorial Station, and Ji Liewu was there too. Li Chang said this time we should organize more people, and tutorial stations near to Beijing Television Station should send more practitioners. If the television station wanted to negotiate, you could be representatives, and you could also find some representatives on the spot. About a week later, the third meeting was held in old cadres' activity room of Guang Qumen Hospital. I felt it was a conclusion meeting about the besiegement against BTV. Tang Xuehua run the meeting and almost all the members of "Research Association" were there. Later Li Chang told me that Li Hongzhi was not satisfied with the incident. At that time Li Hongzhi was in Europe, and then I asked what he said. Li Chang said he had talked with Li Hongzhi for a long time. Li Hongzhi said, "Lao Li , I told you everything but one sentence, I didn't make it clear that you should organize ten thousand people, and then the case was not reversed." I asked Li Chang what was the meaning of being reversed, the apology of BTV was not enough, or we should ask them to publish an announcement in newspaper. He said it was not the case. The meaning of "not reversed" was that they didn't reach the purpose of forcing the central government to admit the legal existence of "Falun Gong". After returning China, Li Hongzhi wrote a short article entitled "Digging Roots", in which Li Hongzhi was impolite. His "Digging Roots" said those practitioners who didn't go were wrong and you should dig their roots in their thought. You didn't practice "Fa" well and your level was too low and you were far away from "consummation". Form then on, practitioners all over the country were agitated. Those who didn't besiege television station dared not lose such kind of chance in the future. At that time the newspaper "Health Digest" also published the problems of "Falun Gong", so practitioners continued to besiege the newspaper and they said they could not lose the chance. The purpose of "Digging Roots" of Li Hongzhi was to instigate practitioners to die for the intention of Li Hongzhi.

I'd like to talk about the 4.25 incident. As to the incident of besiegement against Zhong'nanhai, I was not very clear. In the afternoon of April 24, I was still asleep. Li Chang and Ji Liewu came to my home. They brought out a material of about 4 pages. He asked me to have a look. The first half of the material boasted the advantages of "Falun Gong", and the second half reflected the situation of arrests in Tianjin. It put forward three suggestions to the central government. I told Li Chang that the first half was fine, but the suggestions were too long and far away from the point. Then he asked to revise it. I revised it on the spot. After my revision, the first meaning was that Tianjin should release practitioners immediately and punish the peace breaker, the second meaning was that the government should permit the normal publish of "Zhuan Falun", and the third meaning was that the government should provide a free practicing environment for practitioners. At that time Li Chang didn't tell me what's the usage of the material. Later when I watched the kinescope of 4.25 incident in TV, my three meanings were put forward as the negotiating condition with the central government. At that time I thought the three meanings were my sins. At that time Li Chang just told me some practitioners would go to Fuyou Street tomorrow, and some practitioners from other provinces would come to express supports. Since the arrests took place in Tianjin, the only way was to reflect the situation to the central government. When he left my home, he told me to do nothing and pretend to know nothing. In April 27, my college held a meeting and transmitted documents and the direction of national leaders. They said Li Hongzhi went back in 22 and left in the noon of 24, he had stayed in Beijing for 44 hours. I thought it was not true, I should know it if Li Hongzhi came back. Later, Ji Liewu introduced the procedure of receiving and sending Li Hongzhi, and it was not until then I realized that Li Hongzhi just came back and the incident was plotted by him. In May 8 or 9, Liu Ying (the chief of "Falun Gong" tutor station in Le Shan, Si Chuan province went to my house after returning from Sydney. She said she asked Li Hongzhi why Professor Yu didn't go to the scene of 4.25 incidents. Li Hongzhi said he knew this and he just wanted to protect me. She also gave me two things. One was the well printed draft of Li Hongzhi's lections in Sydney. The other was scrip in which Li Hongzhi wrote: "Believing in Dafa and never changing your belief, promoting level is the basic matter; real nature will be exposed before tests, becoming Buddha or God after consummation". After reading this, I connected it with the besiegement against Zhong'nanhai in April 25. It called practitioners not to give up and continue their belief of practicing "Dafa". If you wanted to obtain "consummation", you should continue your practice. This time would be a test, you should always actively attend such kind of tests.

The three sieges I directly contacted were directed by Li Hongzhi in behind. I felt he threw away all disguise in fighting an he just wanted to show his power through the sieges and produce pressure to the government. And they were also a preview of realizing his political intentions.

The fourth and the last step of him was to throw himself into the lap of western anti-Chinese forces and prepare to fight with Chinese government and Chinese people for ever. After moving the base to America, Li Hongzhi paid great efforts on the management of American "Falun Gong" tutorial station. Ye Hao told me that Li Hongzhi appointed a female station master personally. This female station master came to China twice and I met with her twice. They had a lot of inner contradictions and some practitioners didn't follow her directions. So they were divided into two groups. In order to mediate the contradictions, Li Hongzhi had to divide the American tutorial station into two stations, that is, the western and eastern tutorial stations. Li Hongzhi committed a lot of bad things in China, from directing the attacks against media to organizing more than ten thousand practitioners to besiege Zhong'nanhai. After all these things failed, he had to seek "shelter" in foreign countries and wanted to overthrow Chinese government with the support of American government. I got to know that he delivered lections back to China from time to time and direct practitioners through Internet. By doing so can he not only guarantees his own safety, but also controls domestic practitioners. He just wanted to utilize "Falun Gong" practitioners as victims buried with the dead. Moreover, he gathered some degenerated Chinese people as his backbone, colluded with Taiwan Independence activists, Tibet Independence activists, and democratic activists and splitting activists, and served as the tools of western anti-Chinese forces. Although he put up a desperate struggle, he was determined to fail.